kerdi membrane over cement board

The mortar does . We think it is the cement board (Durock) sucking the moisture out of the unmodified thinset. Step 8: Allow to dry. Backerboard plus a waterproofing membrane like Redgard is all that is needed for tub surrounds with thinset then tile. Modified thinset adhesive is a premixed product that contains latex or acrylic components which make it quite a bit more flexible than regular thinset adhesive and therefore better suited to some applications. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. I'm thirsty. Modified thin-set mortars must dry for the polymers to coalesce and form a hard . If you are good with a trowel and understand how to set up and use screeds as a guide for leveling or forming the mortar, pouring a traditional mortar bed may be a good alternative to tile backer board, especially on uneven or sloping floors. Cement board is typically used in wet areas, such as bathrooms and areas with a lot of moisture, because it is waterproof and provides a level of protection from water damage and long-term moisture exposure. I still wet the walls first. Kerdi Board is also significantly lighter in terms of weight than cement board, meaning they can be transported and lifted into place with ease evening hauling five panels at a time should be no problem. After priming, use an approved adhesive to adhere the KERDI membrane to the drywall, making sure the edges are well sealed and joints are tight.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[468,60],'remodelormove_com-medrectangle-4','ezslot_12',156,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-medrectangle-4-0'); A successful installation of KERDI requires well-prepared surfaces and a proper application, so take the time to properly prime the drywall before installation. Rolling pin, good, now I can throw away my magnesium float.LOLCasey. I used this to seal a 3 1/2 by 6 1/2 foot shower with 7 foot walls. Seams and joints should also be waterproofed and caulked to prevent water from seeping through. Cement board (cbu) is not waterproof, but is not damaged by being wet. Slap it up comb it out, leave every ridge tall and perfect. is that because water doesn't really hit that area?" - Lisa Jasper That's pushing it but should be fine. When it comes to selecting thinset for cement board, there are a few important factors to consider. We installed cement board on the walls, and today when we attempted to apply the Kerdi membrane we could not get it to adhere. Once youre sure that the membrane is completely dry, you can then move forward with tiling. While cement board is a reliable tile underlayment, it isnt completely waterproof only water-resistant. Other mistakes I was making early on:-over working the thinset. To ensure that the Kerdi is completely dry prior to tiling, inspect the inside of the membrane for any signs of moisture or condensation. Je peux rejeter les cookies non essentiels en cliquant sur Grer mes prfrences . First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. No, that doesn't sound right. Now there's nothing particularly wrong with fiber-cementit's just not my first choice. Using modified thinset on KERDI can be tricky and in some cases, it can cause issues. To line niche shelves, for instance. When installing KERDI with unmodified thin-set mortar over particularly dry and porous substrates, it is recommended to wet the substrate first, in order to help prevent premature drying or skinning of the thin-set mortar. #3 This is a DIY site. Yup! Ditra is a 1/8-inch thick polyethylene membrane with a layer of anchoring fleece on the underside and a grid of square cavities on top. For all the substrates listed in this Handbook (e.g., gypsum board, cement backerboard, etc. I trust it and have never had a callback. Sure, you can do it.just be sure to "spritz" or wet the hardi thoroughly before.it's pretty "thirsty.". My floor tiles are 2" x 2"." - Lisa Jasper No - you can not use Kerdi Board on the floor. PROBLEM SOLVED for Tub Flange when Installing Cement Board and Tile. Cementboard sufficient to a tub surround is dirt cheap .vs. Cement boards are typically capable of withstanding larger amounts of water, while a Schlter system is designed to hold up well only in dry conditions. Will add it in. But that doesn't address your question, so it's just a comment, not an answer as such. Using Kolmogorov complexity to measure difficulty of problems? The core isnt waterproof, but it can withstand getting wet without falling apart, so even if your waterproofing system leaks, the board will stay intact. Waterproofing cement board is relatively simple and there are several different waterproofing products available. And we are using a drippy mixture, it slides off the trowel. First, its super lightweight compared with the rest. document.getElementById("ak_js_1").setAttribute("value",(new Date()).getTime()); Your email address will not be published. I usually use Durock. The tub flange can really be a pain in the butt when installing a tile tub surround. Not to mention, its warrantied by Schluter, giving you the ultimate peace of mind. Kerdi does admit that you can use cement board. It is a pliable waterproofing membrane that also doubles as a vapor retarder. Additionally, you can use KERDI-BAND around corners, seams, and joints to help with a waterproof installation. Regardless, cement board is a great, trusted tile substrate that will work well on both walls and floors. When installing Schluter Kerdi Membrane over cement backerboard: Should I use Alkali Resistant Mesh Tape and thinset on the seams of the backer board (for long term durability to prevent each board moving independently thus preventing cracking) prior to installing the Kerdi membrane. It costs more but it;s worth it for the ease of install IMO. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. How did this project turn out? When I do another shower I'll use real cement board, not Hardi-board. A good rule of thumb is 24 hours per inch of thickness, then one more day on top of that to be sure. An extra layer of thinset is then added to the surface of the cement board to adhere the tiles in place. It only takes a minute to sign up. Need help liner vs liquid membrane question. Hang the cement boar. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Good luck with your project. I'm guessing he put a 2x6 across for the curb? After today's tutorial, you'll gain the confidence to transform your old bathroom into a new space. When applying the primer, make sure to cover all surfaces thoroughly, as these will be completely covered by the KERDI membrane. We like that the Kerdi membrane material installs easily over almost any substrate, including standard wallboard. Cut the Kerdi membrane to size using a utility knife or scissors. Personally, I like standard drywall. Their lighter weight makes moving panels around during installation a cinch, which is a far cry from the heft of conventional cement board. One of the major benefits of opting for Kerdi Board over cement board is the ease of installation. x 96 in. Its essential to protect surrounding wall and floor surfaces from water or moisture damage that can occur in these areas. The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. http://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Shower-System/KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/Schluter%C2%AE-KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/p/KERDI_SHOWER-KIT, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. If a pipe or faucet ever leaks in the wall this will ruin your shower. The foam core surrounded by synthetic cloth on both sides and adhered with resin glue is. All it takes is the right preparation. Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! I like to use a garden sprayer to keep the thirsty Kerdi wet. Bulk update symbol size units from mm to map units in rule-based symbology. It's a lightweight polystyrene board faced with Kerdi that comes in various thicknesses that you can use in place of drywall or cement board. Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. rev2023.3.3.43278. I simply sponge off the excess. How "tidy" does the kerdi band need to be? Significantly more time and effort is required to ensure a quality bond when using a modified thinset adhesive with KERDI, and for this reason, it is usually not recommended. I can take a bit of it off the wall and roll it into a ball. Can you remove tile from Kerdi membrane? The thin-set mortar should be mixed to a fairly dry consistency and then spread on the surface with a 1/4 inch square notch trowel. You are wise to use a cement board. 120 sq feet including the floor. Will be doing a bathroom gut and will be laying durock cement board over plywood sub floor. Kerdi 3 ft. 3 in. #1 - Backer board has nothing to do with HD or any other big box. You are telling someone "to have" an artistry that not only takes art skills, knowing how to mix mortar for different situations, and a good amount of practice. This is often accomplished by filling any holes and cracks in the wall with appropriate spackling or patching material. Cement board is readily available and relatively inexpensive (about $10 for a 3 x 5-ft. sheet). #2. My understanding is that Schluter-Kerdi, being a sheet topical membrane, recommends just going with regular drywall instead of cement board but you can certainly use cement board as the substrate. Most of the entries in the NAME column of the output from lsof +D /tmp do not begin with /tmp. We installed cement board on the walls, and today when we attempted to apply the Kerdi membrane we could not get it to adhere. If you can avoid that, the demo would be ~easy enough to maybe have some friends who'd work for beer come over and help you knock it out. I would fear leaks in all corners of this shower. Set ceramic and stone tile over the KERDI membrane with unmodified thin-set mortar, including large format tiles. If a law is new but its interpretation is vague, can the courts directly ask the drafters the intent and official interpretation of their law? This means that even if your waterproofing system leaks, the cement board will remain intact. The manual can be found here: http://floorelf.com/waterproof, I would say unless you are experienced in working with Schluter-Kerdi waterproofing membrane kit, then I would say work with an easier waterproofing approach, either liquid waterproofing or a combination of liquid and traditional waterproofing (plastic covering the wood frame). There are many different types of underlayment to choose from, but they all serve the same purpose. I ended up putting up a thin, skim-coat of thinset all over the hardi board, letting it dry, and then putting up the kerdi. Here are the fundamentals of tile installation over cement board. We were using a 3/16 x 5/32 trowel, probably to small. A hundred times better to have too much before you comb than too little. Do you have any pictures? Redgard is a similar product. A mortar wall is better and can be customized easier. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-1','ezslot_24',166,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-1-0');If cement board is not waterproof, it can negatively impact the integrity of the tile that is installed on top of it, and can lead to a variety of issues. I've seen preferences regarding HardieBacker and the cement board products such as Wonder Board. Continuing Education for Architects & Designers. Kerdi's systems are fairly reputable. Schluter approves their waterproof Kerdi membrane over drywall. If done according to manufacturers instructions, it will seal nicely. If your going to do the job do it right, and give professional advice pls. Do the prefab Schluter niches like the double unit 12 by 28shelf have a built in pitch to the bottom and middle shelves to drainoff water as shown in niche that you built in that thread? When I tried putting up the first sheets, which were only 36" x 39", and even though I had SOAKED the hardi, to the point water was pooling on the floor, the thinset was already drying before I got the Kerdi up, and I couldn't get it to adhere properly no matter how hard I tried. It is also essential that cement board joints and fasteners be sealed and waterproofed with the Kerdi Fix sealant to help prevent water from leaking into the wall and floor cavities. I have watched it done 10-15 times, have good skills, and if I tried to make large mortar walls myself it might like a little kid threw up concrete Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? Yes, Hardie board needs to be waterproofed. Do new devs get fired if they can't solve a certain bug? On the downside, the cement boards are heavy, somewhat difficult to cut and can leave abrasive sandy crumbs that can damage tubs and shower bases if youre not careful. Both Kerdi Board and cement board are designed to smooth out uneven spots on the installation surface, create an unbending layer that wont flex underfoot, and also provide a waterproof barrier. Any competent tile contractor would float the wall in mortar giving you a stronger, level, perfectly flat, and square surface to properly install tile. Dean, our tile consultant, says glass mat backer board is his first choice due to the ease of installation, cost, and because his workers like it. Kerdi can even be installed over drywall. ! Are there tables of wastage rates for different fruit and veg? Unlike cement boards, you can bend this material without it breaking. This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in a strong, dense bond coat. When screwed to the framing, thin strips of cement board fracture more easily than thin strips of fiber-cement. Depending on your project and the specific cement board you are using, you will want to select a thinset appropriate for both.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[468,60],'remodelormove_com-large-leaderboard-2','ezslot_15',158,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-large-leaderboard-2-0'); The two primary criteria to help guide your selection are the type of cement board you are using and whether you are installing it indoors or outdoors. Gettin' a little delirious. Yes, you should prime drywall before installing KERDI in order to ensure proper adhesion and a successful installation. Caulk the gap. The Kerdi membrane should be applied with the standard procedure, using a hogg brush or a notched trowel to spread the thin-set mortar and a roller to ensure appropriate adhesion. I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. We mixed the thinset, it wasn't as smooth as the utube video, but it was close, and we gave it ten minutes. But I did want to understand the cost breakdown as the walls then become WAY more expensive than it would be with Redguard. Additionally, all seams should be sealed with Kerdi Fix and covered with fleece. It looks like Kerdi membrane is ~$2/sqft ($200 for a 108sqft roll) and kerdi board is $3.7/sqft ($115 for a 4x8 sheet (Lowes)). is the contractor creating a waterproof schluter-kerdi shower? Cement board, Wedi board, Kerdi board, Hardibacker, Densshield, Durock, Permabase, or Wonder board . Without an underlayment, even the slightest movement of the subfloor can result in cracking of the tile and crumbling of the grout lines. Putting this stuff on walls is difficult and time . Our thinset was more watery than the videos, but it still managed to dry out quickly, even in the time it takes to apply the small corners in our shampoo niche. Cement board and grout are not water proof, if there's Kerdi no moisture is ever going to be able to get behind it. What are the differences between "paperless drywall" and "cement board"? You don't want to block off the end of the air chanel and trap half a sheet worth of air under there.-Not paying attention to the direction of my knife. Kerdi membrane is a waterproofing material that is designed to be used in wet areas such as bathrooms and showers before tiles are installed. I barely touch it with my hands before going to the tape knife. However, a cement board is generally easier and less expensive to replace if a repair is needed. There are numerous ways to do this. I hang Kerdi on cement board and fibercement board all the time. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? Install the drain adapter, if needed. Cement board comes both in 1/4-inch-thick and 1/2-inch-thick versions. Ditra is manufactured in a 3'3 width and comes in various roll lengths (54sf, 150sf, and 323 sf). Step 4: Place the Tile. It works well, is what Schluter recommends and I've never had an issue with it. The shower tray eliminates the need for a mortar bed. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2','ezslot_25',167,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2-0');Waterproofing should be done prior to the installation of any tile including behind the shower tile. One thing I do like fibercement (Hardie) for is when I need thin strips of cement board. Been clankin' away at this computer for a couple of hours now, guys. The big issue with cement board is that the thinset will skin over really quickly. It may take more than 1 beer:). It is designed to form a waterproof layer between cement board and tiles, helping create a watertight installation. As far as the tile/prep work, you are right that he is shifting the blame. A square foot of half-inch thick cement board weighs roughly 40 ounces, while the equivalent area of a Wedi board weighs about 75% less. Answer (1 of 3): Schluter recommends applying Kerdi over drywall for walls, however, my local building code will not permit this practice - the local building code requires cement backer on the walls of a shower enclosure, therefore, I have done this successfully many times. If he did the framing for the shower, then in order to measure for it correctly, he would need to know how thick the tile is so that he can avoid exactly this problem. As a contractor, I have been using Kerdi since it came out. @JimmyFix-it - You are right. Prime first to create a flat, uniform surface that is free of dust, grease and other debris. . Well, I'm going to give you three different ways to seal the backer board at the tub flange. We waterproof the outside the hardiboard in 99% of the install with something like redgard. Then you can apply a thin layer of KERDI-FIX to the board, the membrane over top, and use a rolling pin to press it down and ensure a secure bond. Seems like I've been using the full measure of water the bag calls for, plus about 10%.-50 lbs of thinset at a time is too much for an amatuer. Cement board is particularly vulnerable to water damage, so waterproofing can help protect it and help it last longer. Can I put Kerdi board over drywall? With so many different types of underlayment to choose from, it can be hard to decide which is best for your project. This is a very effective and popular method of installing tile, and one that ensures the tile doesnt crack. Here's how to get it right the first time, If you've got a steady hand, a few easy-to-find supplies and patience, you can install a tile backsplash in a kitchen or bathroom, Step 4 in swapping your tub for a sleek new shower: Pick your waterproofing materials and drain, and don't forget to test, Work with your contractors and installers to ensure a safe, stylish curb that keeps the water where it belongs, Get the benefits of a time-honored ritual without firing up the coals, thanks to easier-than-ever home steam systems, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists, Out With the Old Tile: 8 Steps to Prep for Demolition, Convert Your Tub Space Into a Shower Waterproofing and Drainage, Steam Showers Bring a Beloved Spa Feature Home. Will use the Schluter Shower system. And for a more secure fit, you can also use screws. Then cement, sand and water are mixed together to a crumbly consistency and floated over the lath to form a flat surface. How do I connect these two faces together? Make sure the floor is level in the shower. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'remodelormove_com-large-mobile-banner-1','ezslot_17',164,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-large-mobile-banner-1-0');As an added precaution, you may want to consider to adding a water-resistant layer afterwards, such as a caulking or flashing tape. Also are you saying that you wet ("booking the Kerdi") the Kerdi, as well? Learn about the options in exterior siding before you choose, Before you pick up a single tile, pull from these tips for expert results, Slip resistance, curves and even the mineral content of your water all affect which tile is best for your shower, We help a Houzz user ask all the right questions for designing a stylish, practical and safe shower bench, This isn't a light DIY project: You'll need heavy-duty tools and plenty of protection for your home and yourself, In steamy quarters, tile needs to stand up to all that water and vapor in style. Yes, it is recommended to waterproof cement board, especially if it is going to be used in exterior settings or in places where it will be in contact with water. Once the membrane is in place, it can be sealed and reinforced with Kerdi-Fix sealant, Kerdi band, and Kerdi-Drain for added waterproofing strength. We are DIYers who have already remodeled one bathroom successfully, but this is our first time using The Schluter shower system. Hardie board is a cement-based siding product that is water-resistant, but not waterproof. When applying the thin-set, it should be applied in such a way that it fully fills any empty space between the Tile and Schluter product and is solid enough to support the weight of the tiles being installed. We recommend our users to update the browser. Tile Shower SurroundCement Backerboard Location? To create a watertight shower assembly, we installed Schluter's Kerdi membrane over the drywall, just as we would for tile.Write by:. For the floor I make a dry mix mud base and then the Kerdi membrane. It's not a matter of trusting the Kerdi. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? I have corrugated metal shower surround & grab bars. Kerdi Board vs. Cement Board. Probably the simplest way is to caulk the gap with 100% silicone or a urethane sealant. In a perfect job, it will waterproof. It is a topical waterproofing layer that is put over the substrate to keep water from getting to the wood frame and nails. When doing so, it is important to ensure that the drywall surface is clean and free of dust, grease, and loose paint. And how do you keep too much water from interfering with the adhesion in the second scenario?Thanks!! The taping knife at a low angle makes an enormous difference, and I'm very grateful for that hint. Fixing that is not that easy though. Install an Uncoupling Membrane Between Concrete and Tile. Start by cleaning the cement board with a mineral oil soap; this will help reduce mold and mildew growth throughout the life of the shower. . After roughly two days I would fill the corner with silicone. Project Type: Tile / Category: Bathroom. That means that you do not have to rely on a surface membrane or worry about the board failing if the core is exposed to water. There is no cutting or fitting of boards, and a mortar bed is good for leveling and flattening uneven or out-of-level floors, which are common in old houses. But I can't give you a +1 because telling someone to mortar all the walls in a large shower is like telling them to make an ice sculpture. It is designed to form a waterproof layer between cement board and tiles, helping create a watertight installation. On the other hand, a Schlter system offers improved thermal insulation, which can help to reduce heating costs. Thanks to all for the feedback. Builder saying he doesn't want to put my trim tile in here. The curb doesn't have to be any wider than a 2x4. Re: Kerdi on shower curbs. Once the primer is completely dry, use a roller or brush to apply a coat of your chosen KERDI membrane adhesive over the entire surface of the wall, overlapping the edges slightly for full coverage. Since KERDI is impervious, it does not deprive the mortar of its moisture. The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. Fiber cement board is a variation of cement board that is made from compressed cement and sand and reinforced with wood fibers throughout. I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. The bag says Mapei floortile mortar, it was the only unmodified thinset at our hardware store. that's home depot homeowner installation method. Once the adhesive has been applied and has had time to properly cure, then the KERDI membrane can be applied to the wall. Step 7: Cut the Tile. You provide the pitch during the tile set. Also, apply the acrylic mastic between the Create curved designs around pipes or columns using the vertically-grooved KERDI-BOARD-V, or use L-shaped KERDI-BOARD-E panels to enclose similar. ", Signed,Never Hung Kerdi A Day In Her Life. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. They can be installed on any type of support and can even be used to create partitions, with no structural support required. No bulges either, but definetly no thin spots.-Not paying attention to the direction of the comb. Look at it this way; Withe Kerdi, you either trust it or you don't. The Ditra uncoupling design is lightweight, durable, and minimizes the possibility of cracked tile and grout. Install the Schluter Kerdi membrane over the backer board using the correct mortar. As fiber cement board is similar to regular cement board, it makes sense to choose the one that is cheaper or more readily available. Following the instructions for the product being used and ensuring that all of the necessary steps are followed will help to ensure a successful installation. I have to redo my tub surround due to moisture leaks and failing grout. First, it's super lightweight compared with the rest. Kerdi membrane prevents water damage and mold development. Installing cement board involves placing the boards atop a layer of thinset adhesive, a process known as bedding. there should be a small gap between the backer board and the tub. Go with smaller bags or only mix half. The cement board core itself is not waterproof, but it can withstand water without falling apart.

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